Talk:Taekwondo

Names in the Sidebar
People seem to be obsessed with adding more names in the sidebar. Is there any point to adding names that don't already have Ingenpedia entries?

Origins of Taekwondo

 * Re: ‎History of Taekwondo: POV edited. This is highly contentious issue. Err on side of being inclusive rather than exclusive.)

I agree that the history of taekwondo is contentious, and that historians don't have all the details. That having been said, the most well-researched sources indicate that taekwondo derived primarily from karate, with apparently some influence from kung fu (especially via Hwang Kee at Moo Duk Kwan), and possibly some inspiration from taekyyeon (i.e., childhood exposure to taekkyeon resulting in a lifelong interest in martial arts). I believe that's about as accurate as one can make the statement. So I disagree that we should "err on the side of being inclusive" -- when in doubt, I believe we should err on the side of whatever historical data is available, and avoid conjecture. Truejim (talk) 22:21, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree inclusivity for inclusivity's sake is counter to historical accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onalaska46 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Lead Paragraph
We have to keep a sharp eye on the lead paragraph. Anonymous editors often change the lead paragraph to describe taekwondo as being derived from taekkyeon. It's really well documented by this point that that claim just isn't true; taekwondo is largely derived from karate. Taekwondo may have been influenced by taekkyon, but that's the most you could legitimately say. Truejim (talk) 10:36, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

We also have a problem with Anonymous editors completely removing the reference to taekkyeon. Truejim (talk) 13:52, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Incidence of injuries
I found a study of incidence of injuries in Taekwondo, most interesting stat to me was "The incidence of cerebral concussions in Taekwondo was reported by Zemper and Pieter in 1994 to be more than 2 times greater than in college football games, based on number of exposures."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796946/#b9-jcca-v53-4-272

Zemper ED, Pieter W. Cerebral concussion in Taekwondo athletes. In: Hoerner EF, editor. Head and Neck Injuries in Sports. Philadelphia: American Society for Testing and Materials; 1994. pp. 116–123.

Certainly seems worth mentioning to me. Jhayes94 (talk) 20:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC)


 * To me it doesn't seem relevant to the definition and description of taekwondo. Just like I wouldn't describe boxing by describing how many concussions boxers get, and I would describe skiing by describing how many sprained ankles skiers get. It's a true fact and an interesting fact, but it's not part of the definition or description of the art itself. At best, it could be put in a "controversies" subheading, but such a subheading would become huge with a topic like taekwondo. Truejim (talk) 22:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The boxing page does have a section on medical concerns. Why shouldn't this page have one as well? Jhayes94 (talk) 17:18, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

List of Famous Practioners
YOU FORGOT YOUNGEST MMA FIGHTER " SAGE NORTHCUTT" IS THIRD DEGREE BLACK BELT IN TAEKWONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Northeastasia (talk • contribs) 16:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Introduction This paragraph requires review, a good source is Henning's article on Korean martial arts. "The oldest Korean martial art was an amalgamation of unarmed combat styles developed by the three rival Korean Kingdoms of Goguryeo, Silla, and Baekje,[4] where young men were trained in unarmed combat techniques to develop strength, speed, and survival skills. The most popular of these techniques was ssireum and subak, with taekkyeon being the most popular of the components of subak. The Northern Goguryeo kingdom was a dominant force in Northern Korea and North Eastern China prior to the 1st century CE, and again from the 3rd century to the 6th century. Before the fall of the Goguryeo Dynasty in the 6th century, the Shilla Kingdom asked for help in training its people for defense against pirate invasions. During this time a few select Silla warriors were given training in taekkyeon by the early masters from Goguryeo. These Shilla warriors then became known as the Hwarang. The Hwarang set up a military academy for the sons of royalty in Silla called Hwarang-do, which means "the way of flowering manhood." The Hwarang studied taekkyeon, history, Confucian philosophy, ethics, Buddhist morality, social skills, and military tactics. The guiding principles of the Hwarang warriors were based on Won Gwang's five codes of human conduct and included loyalty, filial duty, trustworthiness, valor, and justice. Taekkyeon spread throughout Korea as the Hwarang traveled all around the peninsula to learn about the other regions and people.[citation needed]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.57.212.11 (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Taekwondo: History, Karate relationship.

PLEASE UPDATE THE MISINFORMED INFORMATION: YES, TAEKWONDO " KOREAN MARTIAL ART" NAME IS 68 YEARS OLD. YES, TAEKWONDO NAME IS DERIVED FROM KOREAN MARTIAL ART CALLED " TAEKKYON" ART OF KICKING/ ART OF CONTACT. TAEKWONDO, DID NOT DERIVED FROM KARATE. KARATE IS OKINAWAN MARTIAL ART NOT JAPANESE. OKINAWA IS INFLUENCED BY CHINESE NOT JAPANESE. TAEKWONDO IS MIXED MARTIAL ART WITH KOREAN ROOTS. JAPAN MILITARY GOVERNMENT TRIED TO ERASE ALL KOREAN MARTIAL ART DURING 36 YEARS MILITARY OCCUPATION HISTORY. REALITY THEY COULD NOT BAN KOREAN MARTIAL ARTS. TAEKWONDO IS NOT KARATE INFLUENCED MARTIAL ART. TWO MARTIAL ARTS ARE COMPLETE DIFFERENT ART AND ORIGIN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Korean1Kick1 (talk • contribs) 10:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)


 * For the record, the above rant is verifiably not true at all. Reference http://www.kidokwan.org/articles/the-evolution-of-taekwondo-from-japanese-karate/ Truejim (talk) 22:54, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The list in the info box is huge and with some it is not even clear how strong the link is. Chris Angel?? I would suggest moving the entire group into a multicolumn subsection or alternatively a list like we see with Kickboxers or Aikido.Peter Rehse (talk) 07:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the size of the list is related to the definition of "Famous Practioners". Should a 'famous' rapper who earned a black belt when he was 17 be in this list? I suggest that the info box have people who are famous for their activities in taekwondo and that a trimmed paragraph have the names of the 'famous' teenage black belts. jmcw (talk) 07:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the best way is a brutal trimming of the info-box list and a little bit of a check on its growth. Had a tough day at work - I need a little brutality in my life.  Maybe every name that does not mention Taekwando in the first paragraph.Peter Rehse (talk) 08:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Go one level more brutal: if the article does not have a reference supporting training in taekwondo, cut it out of this article. I used this logic in removing categories. jmcw (talk) 08:06, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So do the people listed HAVE to be continue training in Taekwondo? Many of the people I have listed DO continue training while others also compete in other sports.--Snugglbunny (talk) 02:35, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * List only World and Olympic champions/gold medallists. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:23, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

The opinion of the International Taekwon-Do Federation vs the opinion of the World Taekwondo Federation
There are two organisations: the ITF and the WTF. The ITF was founded by Choi Hong Hi and the ITF believe that he is the creator of Taekwondo. The WTF believes Taekwondo was developed by a variety of Korean masters by collaborative effort. In cases of MPOV, both POV should be represented. The article covers these these POVs. I suggest that the template field 'creator' should be left empty or filled with 'various'. jmcw (talk) 22:20, 14 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Take a look at when the ITF was founded (1964) and when the WTF was founded 1969. Now take a look at when General Choi started teaching Taekwondo 1955.  The reason as to why the WTF states that Choi was not the founder is merely political.   The New York Times states that he is the creator of TaeKwondo.  .  South Korea created a totally different Taekwondo, but kept the name.  It's techniques are different as well as the goals in sparring. .  Additionally, many people recognize Choi as the founder.  Those of the WTF say that TKD existed before Choi (which it didn't, Taekkyeon is a completely different art) or the WTF says it was a formation from different masters, but fails to mention who the masters are.  General Choi wanted to teach TKD to north koreans and was essentially exiled to Canada.  He later moved to North Korea and is labeled a traitor by many Koreans.  Thus you can see why he the WTF tries to delete  or omit his place in history. By the way, I have studied both WTF and ITF TKD.  I have no preference in the styles.  I do though only want the truth to be shown.  CrazyAces489 (talk) 09:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Ingenpedia is not about IN:TRUTH - it is about reliably sourced information. This article has two reliable sourced views on the origins of TKD. According to the Ingenpedia policy IN:NPOV, we should present both views in a balance way. I suggest that we either leave the 'creator' field blank or return the 'in the opinion of' attribution that you removed. jmcw (talk) 10:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * And by the way, I agree with your analysis. But to put this logic into the article would violate Ingenpedia policy IN:OR. jmcw (talk) 10:22, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There are tons of sources which give both sides.  So what is to be done? CrazyAces489 (talk) 10:54, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

http://www.martialartsarticlesonline.com/taekwondoolympicpast.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrazyAces489 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, there are good sources. I suggest that in the info box 'creator' field that we say 'see the article'. You and I do not have to decide who is right or wrong. jmcw (talk) 11:05, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * it takes away from the article. people want quick access.  I suggest having 2 sections for founders to make it easier.  ITF - General Choi and 1955.  WTF  -  whatever date they list. OR we can ask for a 3rd opinion or get other editors to review it. CrazyAces489 (talk) 12:39, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have no problem with simply 'According to ITF, Choi Hong'. jmcw (talk) 12:50, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Excuse me, I did not see that the article has changed. It looks good now with the attribution to ITF. jmcw (talk) 12:55, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * That's fine. That was before you made this posting.  Take a look at these links.  http://www.kidokwan.org/articles/the-evolution-of-taekwondo-from-japanese-karate/   this link omits Choi all together   CrazyAces489 (talk) 06:52, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Massive changes on November 25, 2013
This article has multiple points of view. With almost 8000 bytes of changes in 3 hours, it is not possible to see how the multiple POV have changed. Please make smaller changes over several days. Thank you! jmcw (talk) 19:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph (karate)
The opening paragraph currently says:


 * Taekwondo was developed during the 1940s and 1950s by Korean martial artists, the most well-known being General Choi Hong Hi, as a combination of the indigenous traditions of taekkyeon, gwonbeop, and subak.

That's not really true, right? Taekwondo is really more like a Korean offshoot of karate, with some elements of other Korean and Chinese martial arts thrown-in. I'm not saying, "taekwondo is just karate" -- I'm saying, the opening paragraph as it is currently written completely omits any mention of karate, which seems like a huge oversight. See http://taekwondo.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Taekwondo, for example.

Truejim (talk) 22:02, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

upper case or lower case?
Troughout the whole article capital T and lower t are mixed. Why?--Mideal (talk) 10:44, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Why do you delete karate influence?　 'Founder of Taekwondo' learns karate.
check Choi Hong Hi.

organizations, portray Choi as either an unimportant or a dishonorable figure in taekwondo history, whether by omitting him from their versions of taekwondo history.

The Korean does not accept influence of karete. However, the taekwondo is not really managed without karate. 218.230.179.247 (talk) 02:23, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Shotokan Karate influence omitted
How is it possible to omit the fact that Taekwondo is largely based on Shotokan Karate? The general reference to Karate influences seems really little to me considering that also all of the katas were "imported" from Shotokan.

Kagite (talk) 02:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Taekwondo uniform and ranking system is a copy of KARATE.
Korea was a colony of Japan. Korea hides influence of Japan.221.185.252.67 (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Taekwondo or Taekwon-do
The article uses two spellings: taekwondo and taekwon-do. The latter spelling appears to be associated with ITF sources (?), while the former appears to be from everywhere else. Since the title of this article is "Taekwondo", I suggest we be consistent and use that spelling throughout the article (while preserving the original titles of cited sources, whatever they use, of course.) (There is also the question of internal capitalization (TaeKwonDo), but I think that is a topic for a separate discussion.) — Loadmaster (talk) 17:22, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The ITF spells it taekwon-do, and pretty much everybody else spells it taekwondo. So when you see it written taekwon-do, you know the sentence pertains primarily to ITF-style. Truejim (talk) 21:11, 13 June 2016 (UTC)


 * That does not address the issue for Ingenpedia, which stresses consistency within its articles. I suggest we use the most widely used spelling (taekwondo) instead of variants that are specific to single organizations. — Loadmaster (talk) 18:14, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The origin of Tae Kwon Do in this article is wrong!
Tae Kwon Do originated about 2,000 years ago! Someone needs to fix all that, and I'm not sure how to, I just made my account. S. Snipes (talk) 15:05, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Famous practitioners
The "Famous practitioners" list in the infobox is long and unwieldy. It contains listings of minor figures in the field that could hardly be considered famous. Can it be trimmed to 2 or 3 individuals? Gnome de plume (talk) 12:04, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

"Often mispronounced"?
The header of this article currently cites the correct pronunciation of Taekwondo as [tʰɛ.k͈wʌn.do], and then describes /ˌtaɪkwɒnˈdoʊ/ and /ˌtaɪˈkwɒndoʊ/ as "mispronunciations". No other article describes anglicised pronunciations of foreign words as incorrect, nor should they in my opinion. Am I being unreasonable, or should "commonly mispronounced as" be removed?

Justin Kunimune (talk) 03:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Hong Hi Choi learned Taekkyeon?
Can someone verify this book? Is there really such mention of Hong Hi Choi learning Taekkyeon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearberserk (talk • contribs) 16:14, 16 January 2019 (UTC) I'm told that the first 5 Gwan/gym became 9 Gwan/gym, which united to become Taekwondo in 1960's. This means Chang Moo Kwan's Gwonbub was a significant factor in Taekwondo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearberserk (talk • contribs) 16:23, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

1960's 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms united to create Taekwondo in relation to Pasa-Gwonbeop & Karate
Taekwondo is a mix of Gwonbeop gym & Karate gyms. The following 5 Gwan gyms were the most famous & the earliest in Taekwondo history. Later, these became 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms (particularly with the Gwonbeop gym's expansion into 4 more Gwan/Kwan/Gym), which united in 1960's to become Taekwondo. Taekwondo is a mix of 4 Karate gyms & 5 Gwonbeop gyms. YMCA Gwonbeop Club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate; there is an old publication called "Pasa-Gwonbeop" by Cheolheui Park which contained what was taught at the YMCA Gwonbeop Club. It includes postures similar to Taekwondo/Karate such as Taekwondo/Karate punch (which already existed in 300 years old Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop pictures), but it also includes postures very different from Taekwondo/Karate (proving Gwonbeop lineage to Gwonbeop, not some other art).

Chung Do Kwan - founded by Lee Won Kuk. Trained in Shotokan by Gichin and Gigo Funakoshi. In 1944, He was granted permission by the Japanese Governor and General to begin teaching Karate in Seoul.

Song Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Ro Byung Jick. Studied karate under Gichin Funakoshi along with Chung Do Kwan founder Lee Won Kuk in Japan.

Moo Duk Kwan - Founded in 1945 by Hwang Kee. Trained Chinese kung fu and japanese karate.

Ji Do Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Chun Sang Sup. Studied Shotokan karate with Gichin Funakoshi in Japan.

Chang Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Yoon Byung-in and taught Gwonbub in YMCA. It is unclear when & how Byungin Yoon trained Karate. He was given 5th Dan in Karate while in college; he only spent his college years exposed to Karate. Regardless, he was trained in Gwonbeop & Kung Fu as well; he taught Gwonbeop.

There are visual differences between Korean Gwonbeop & the original Chinese Quan Fa. The following is the 300 years old Korean pictures on Korean Gwonbub/Gwonbeop. Mas Oyama also recorded in his book about Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop.

Quoting the book "Gwan/Gym Oriented Retrospect on Taekwondo Creation History" by Cheolheui Park: "I was preteen when I first met Taekwondo. At the time, the person who taught Taekwondo (I learned from YMCA Gwonbeop club, which called it Gwonbeop) was master Byungin Yoon.", "After Korea was liberated, Master (Yoon) was a gym teacher in Gyungsung Agriculture school, taught his martial art. Later, he moved to Gyungdong Middle School. Even Woonyong Kim who was the WTF Taekwondo president learned Gwonbub in that school.", "In 1946, at Seoul Jongro's YMCA, Byungin Yoon established a Gwonbeop club then started teaching martial art seriously. Originally, master Yoon taught at Chosunyeonmukwan Gwonbeop club with master Sangseob Jeon.", "The Gwans that came out of YMCA Gwonbub Club are the following. Jungpyo Hong opened Mudowon; I took over & changed its name to Gangdukwon. Namsuk Lee & Soonbae Kim's Changmugwan. Dongju Lee's Gangmugwan, etc. Namseok's Lee's student opened Choongmugwan. Sungkyunkwan University's captain also opened a Dojang/Dojo.", "Honghi Choi, the founder of ITF Taekwondo also visited YMCA Gwonbub Club time to time.", "YMCA Gwonbub club created Changmugwan & Gangdeokwon". Cheolheui Park was born in 1933. Trained Gwonbub in YMCA Gwonbub club. After the Korean war, started Gangdeokwon. He was the Taekwondo teacher in Military Army School, Gyungmudae Martial Art teacher, Daehan Taesudo Federation's Executive Secretary.

"'백만인의 가라테'의 저자 소개를 보면, 그는 9세 경에 권법을 배워 중학 2년에 초단이 되었다고 하고 있어 권법을 배웠다고 할 수 있다. 하지만, 전 세계의 무예를 소개하는 내용에는 조선의 무예를 서술하면서 그 특징으로 박치기와 머리카락(댕기머리?) 치기, 어깨치기 등의 특이한 기법이 있었다고 하며 발을 사용하는 소년과 선비의 대결 모습을 그림으로 표현하면서, ‘조선권법’이라고 기재하고 있어". Translation: "In the author biography in the book '1 Million's Karate', Oyama learned Gwonbub at age 9, he became black belt in the 2nd grade of middle school. It can be said that he learned Gwonbeop. In his contents introducing martial arts of the world, he described Korean martial art. In characteristics, there are headbutt, hair strike, shoulder strike, etc special techniques. He showed a picture of a boy and a man kicking; he called it Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop."

The term and the sport Gwonbeop (권법, 拳法) started 300 years ago in Korea by editing Chinese Quan Fa and mixing Subak with it. This was done by a 300 years old Korean martial art textbook Muyedobotongji. Gwonbeop was taught in Korea at YMCA Gwonbeop club in the mid 20th century which used the name Gwonbeop like Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop. After Gwonbeop was mixed with Karate, Taekwondo was started in the 1960's by the 9 gyms involving Gwonbeop & Karate. Cheolheui Park published a book called Pasa-Gwonbeop when he was young. Besides Okinawan Karate's Kata, the book Pasa-Gwonbeop also includes Gibonhyung 1~5 and Jeonggonghyung 1 which were done in YMCA Gwonbeop Club before Pasa-Gwonbeop was published. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop (included in the book Pasa-Gwonbeop) has many postures looking similar to Taekwondo/Karate (such as Taekwondo/Karate punch, which already existed in 300 years old Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop pictures) while also having postures looking distinct from it. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate.

Gwonbeop, which started 300 years ago by Muyedobotongji in Korea, existed in Korea even 100 years ago such as Mas Oyama's middle school years. It is unclear when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop, but he must have learned it at some point of time to teach Gwonbeop. Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop (published when he was young) looks somewhat different from Muyedobotongji Gweonbeop, which could be from Byungin Yoon's Kung Fu experience.

Byungin Yoon was also involved in the development of North Korean Gyuksul. North Korea has a fight game called Kyuksul. According to historical records referred by Mookas martial art magazine, "the earlier contests were about the same as boxing, but in 1987's 7th contest, it evolved to the level of kickboxing."

Gyuksul was originally from Subak. In the new Gyuksul rules & techniques, Gyuksul also resembles Sibak (Korean street fighting games) & Gwonbeop (Muyedobotongji).

Those 3 pictures are Gyuksul moves. There are similar moves in Korean Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop, except that Gwonbub's wild swing with shoulder-push uses vertical fist while Gyuksul uses horizontal fist. Those 3 pictures resemble these two 300 years old Korean Gwonbeop pictures.

North Korean Gyuksul started from Subak. Then it evolved to be like Sibak & Gwonbeop by the influence of Byungin Yoon and his art Gwonbeop taught at YMCA, which became a root of Taekwondo. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop different from Karate is shown by Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop published when he was young. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop influenced both Taekwondo & Gyuksul; the influence is from Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop.

As for whether Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop was pure Gwonbeop or was influenced by Karate & Kung Fu
As for whether Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop was pure Gwonbeop or was influenced by Karate & Kung Fu. For discussing what's possible, you have the burden of proof. It's not about what's possible but what's proven. Just like all other topics. Also, in any case, Byungin Yoon taught Gwonbeop, not some other art. This Gwonbeop was documented by Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop publication. It doesn't matter when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop. The point is he learned it; he taught. Mas Oyama also learned Gwonbeop while he was 9 to the 2nd grade in the middle school. Byungin Yoon probably also learned Gwonbeop when he was young. It doesn't matter when he learned it. The point is, he taught it.

Also, the basic moves in Karate also existed in Korean Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop anyway including chambered rotation punch. Whether the Gwonbeop that Byungin Yoon taught was pure Gwonbeop or not, it was Gwonbeop anyway, which came from Subak. It wasn't Karate but Gwonbeop in name & in content (proven by Pasa-Gwonbeop).

Also, Taekwondo is just one topic. The same logic applies for all topics with the burden of proof. What's claimed should be proven. What's possible shouldn't have to be disproven. Korean had power circus (power magic show, powerful strikes were created by common sense strikes & practice, trial & error) Breaking game predating Karate's Tameshiwari. (This form of Breaking/Tameshiwari predates martial arts doing Breaking.) Korean had street fighting games (Taekyun-Yetbub, Sibak) which had no-spin horizontal fist punch. Also, Korean had Subak, which had frontal slaps like Subyuk (Hand-Clapping) but also punches unlike Subyuk (nickname, Ken, fist).

Also, all sources have to be reputable, as in meeting the academic standard for reputable sources. Wiki also has the same standard. My sources are from scholarship & news organizations, mostly scholarly sources & reputable newspapers. https://ingen.miraheze.org/wiki/Ingenpedia:Reliable_sources As for me being wrong in whether Taekwondo had solely Gwonbeop lineage or also Karate lineage (apparently not mutually exclusive), it's irrelevant. Just because I was wrong in something doesn't mean I'm wrong in another thing again. Just because I was correct once in something doesn't mean I'm correct again. All events are independent of each other. If I was wrong, I gather more counter-evidences & counter-logic; I fix my stance. If I'm right, there's nothing to fix; my conclusions from my reputable references & sources are correct in any topic. It's always about the logical inferences, proofs, sources. And there is no counter logic nor counter evidence for any of the topics I'm talking about whether Breaking, Taekkyeon Yetbub, Subak, etc. I'm the facts in such topics I talk about now. They are proven with reputable (& also old) references & reputable sources. I don't have a leap in logical inference this time. All proofs & sources are solid.

My focus on Byungin Yoon was mainly that Taekkwondo has connection to Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop and also Subak. Taekwondo is tainted; it is indeed mixed with other arts like Karate & Kung Fu. Still, the point is whether traditional Korean lineage & connection exist or not. Taekwondo is connected to Gwonbeop. Also, all the main basic moves in Taekwondo/Karate already existed in Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop 300 years ago.