Talk:Messi–Ronaldo rivalry

Overcategorisation
I have repeatedly removed this article from Category:Association football, Category:Sports rivalries, Category:Manchester United F.C., Category:Real Madrid C.F., Category:FC Barcelona and Category:FIFA Ballon d'Or per IN:CAT. It does not belong in the "Association football" or "Sports rivalries" categories, as it already appears in Category:Association football rivalries, which is a subcategory of the above two. It does not belong in any of the club categories as the rivalry between two individual players is not relevant to the clubs they play for, and it definitely doesn't belong in the "FIFA Ballon d'Or" category as the rivalry is not relevant to that award either. – PeeJay 12:09, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Seeing as the article highlights how the rivalry dominates media coverage of the games, and how these players are the fourth and first top scorer in the clubs histories, and have broken multiple records each during some of the clubs most successful periods of time, I'd suggest it is relevant to those clubs. And it is relevant to the Ballon d'Or too, as highlighted in the article, with them both dominating the award voting so much that they both decided not to vote for each other, showing how the rivalry crosses over into that as well. RealDealBillMcNeal (talk) 12:40, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It's relevant, but not to the extent that the article belongs in categories about those clubs. It's a rivalry between individuals competing for similar awards and trophies. – PeeJay 16:01, 6 December 2014 (UTC) Messi is the best.
 * Reviewing this article and its revision history, I have a few points I'd like to address:
 * It appears to me this article is mostly composed of lists of each player's overall accomplishments, which could violate IN:NOTSTATSBOOK. To better illustrate the rivalry, it should probably include only head-to-head statistics, as the overall lists are better suited to each player's individual articles. An article on the rivalry between Barcelona and Real Madrid would rightly be included in those teams' categories, but this is an article about a rivalry between two players, not the teams on which they play. Please see IN:OVERCAT
 * That both players have dominated the FIFA Ballon d'Or of late does not mean that their rivalry is germane to the award, therefore this article does not warrant inclusion in Category:FIFA Ballon d'Or unless the rivalry can be tied directly to the award. Again, see IN:OVERCAT
 * As identified before, per IN:CAT an article that is listed in a category should not also be listed in parent categories. Thus, inclusion of this article in Category:Association football rivalries prohibits its inclusion in parent categories Category:Association football and Category:Sports rivalries, plus any further parent categories. Again, IN:OVERCAT
 * In addition to the repeated removals and reinsertions of the categories, I also saw a number of renamings of the article in the revision history, each listing the other player first; since Ingenpedia requires IN:NPOV, these continued renamings are blatant violations of not only that policy, but also seem to violate IN:3RR. Whichever title was used when this article was created should be the title under which this article is maintained. Everyone involved in these edit wars may be in violation of IN:3RR, so I suggest a cooling-off period on this article.
 * I'd also like to point to Borg–McEnroe rivalry as an example of an article about a rivalry that I feel is well composed, since it focuses on their head-to-head results. -- Jkudlick t c s 17:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

"Perceived" vs "Supposed"
I've edited the lead of the article several times to change the word "perceived" to "supposed" or "hypothetical" to indicate that the rivalry is assumed to be real amongst fans, journalists and possible other players, but isn't necessarily so (as stated by Messi and Ronaldo themselves). By definition, the word "perceived" means "(someone or something) interpreted or looked on in a particular way", so to say that the rivalry is "perceived" is an incomplete way of describing it; what exactly is it perceived as? By definition, the word "supposed" means "generally assumed or believed to be the case, but not necessarily so", while one of the definitions of the word "hypothetical" is "supposed but not necessarily real or true". Both "supposed" and "hypothetical" describe the rivalry more accurately than "perceived", so for me it's just a matter of a choice between the two words. Davykamanzi → talk • contribs • alter ego 01:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2016
Nothing on Barcelona's 5-0 win in El Classico? Isn't that relevant in the rivalry as well? --5.12.249.185 (talk) 14:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

5.12.249.185 (talk) 14:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Andy W. ( talk ) 05:48, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

I see little that does NOT violate IN:BLP
I see nothing here that does not violate IN:BLP. I suppose blanking the article would not be productive, but look alive, people. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:42, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thinking it over, the routine stats probably don't violate IN:BLP. The rest of the article does.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 04:50, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2017
please update the no of goals messi and Ronaldo have hit in the champions league 49.207.187.54 (talk) 14:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC) More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:51, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * To what?  JTP (talk • contribs) 15:24, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2017
Ronaldo has 100 Champions League goals now following the Brace he score at the first leg and the hat-trick he scored on the second leg against Bayern Munich(BirialaGday (talk) 13:41, 22 April 2017 (UTC)) BirialaGday (talk) 13:41, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks! I updated it here. Is that where you wanted the change made? -- Irn (talk) 15:27, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2017
would like to obtain the permission to write some distinguishing fact between the two players that have ever exist in this planet Frankiewagg (talk) 11:13, 8 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself.  Murph 9000  (talk) 16:55, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 02 July 2017
Please add the 2008 FA Community Shield to Cristiano Ronaldo in the Honours section. rtpanneal623 (talk) 18:35, 21 May 2017 (EDT)

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Notes about the article
Either we remove the detailed stats altogether and leave only the summary stats. Or collapse most of the stats the way many football entries do.
 * Most of the stats are redundant. Make the article impossible to read / navigate. And deem it useless in a way.


 * The season to season writeups are also extremely long.

Those are: Play style differences. Lots has been written about messi play being so different from Ronaldo. Which is not to say who is better. But is central to the issue, and interesting in its own right. Personal differences. Ronaldo is outgoing, active on social media and combative. Messi is introverted and not very visible outside the field of play.
 * The real comparative subjects are completely absent.

Of course, covering the personal aspects objectively is a challenge. But this is part and parcel of the subject. Jazi Zilber (talk) 16:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Why not Ballon d'Or award in Players Honours?
Why Ballon d'Or award is not included in Player Honours?. This award has been the most important individual award for years, and in others footballers player pages is included as part of Player Honours, like Zinedine Zidane, Marco Van Basten, Michel Platini to name just three. And in those pages are both awards listed, FIFA World Player of the Year and Ballon d'Or.

Ballon d'Or was included in this page before yesterday The Best FIFA Men's Player (October 23 2017), and now there is a message "FIFA AWARDS ONLY", why?.

Even in this same page, in "Awards and records" there's a section for Ballon d'Or.

Should we take off Ballon d'Or of all other winners pages too? I don't think so, so then why is not here?

Is the criteria different for this page and others players pages? Mijcofr (talk) 19:50, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Not now, since for weeks or months that message is there but I agree with you. It is't even coherent since it mentions them in the other parts of the text.

Player Honours
Hi, I can see that you show all of the player honours. In my opinion, Ingenpedia should only show the player honours that the player is credited with. Messi does not have 32 trophies as Wkipedia claim on this page, he has 31. He was not awarded the 2005 Supercopa, and the list should therefore not show it as a honour. The same with Ronaldo. It says that he has won 26 trophies in total, but he has only been awarded with 24. He was not awarded the 2008 Community Shield, nor the 2016 UEFA Super Cup. The original Ingenpedia page for both players show only the trophies that the player is awarded with, and I think it should be the same here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik0609 (talk • contribs) 14:29, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 12:51, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * FIFA Club World Cup.svg

Notable expert/authoritive opinions?
Why not have them? Citations from the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Diego Simeone, Maradona and others. --Ruhubelent (talk) 01:47, 8 January 2020 (UTC)