Talk:Dingo

Inaccurate description of areas in habitat map
I suspect that the statement "The dingo's habitat covers most of Australia, but they are completely absent in the southwest, a strip on the eastern coast, and an area on the southwest coast (see map)" needs to be changed to "The dingo's habitat covers most of Australia, but they are completely absent in the southwest, a strip on the northeast coast, and an area across the southeastern states (see map)"

My reading of the map is that the "absent in the southeast" is meant to apply to that white area stretching across a large swath of SA, VIC and NSW, and that the "strip on the eastern coast" applies to the northeastern coastal region of QLD. However I will defer to dingo habitat specialists. NotesTracker (talk) 11:14, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, the description doesn't match the map. I've changed it to "The dingo's habitat covers most of Australia, except for the southeast and Tasmania, a strip on the northeastern coast, and an area in the southwest (see map)". Given the area they are absent from in the SE is quite large, perhaps it needs more accurate desciption.  Jts1882 &#124; talk 11:41, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

IUCN Redlist - dingo delisted
Last year, the IUCN delisted the dingo as a feral dog. Follow the link provided by Boitani 2018 in the Reference section of the article, and on the Red List website under Order Carnivora click on "Taxonomy in detail". The paragraph at the bottom of the Taxonomy section states: "Note that this assessment follows Jackson et al. (2017) in regarding the Dingo, sometimes considered a subspecies of Grey Wolf (C. l. dingo), as a feral dog population derived from a domesticate, and hence as C. familiaris, along with all other free-ranging dogs."

 William Harris talk  12:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Canis dingo
To help clarify:

Nomenclature - is its scientific name which is not up for debate. It will always be referred to as Canis dingo in scientific articles relating to it, that is what its identifier originally called it.

Taxonomy attempts to classify like with like. Some people believe the dingo is similar to a dog, others to a wolf, and others as a creature completely different from the other two. This is what is being debated.  William Harris talk  03:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Breed box
I am replacing the current subspecies box with a breed box as per IN:BRD. My reasoning is:
 * 1) Dingo is not a subspecies - Canis lupus dingo is the subspecies (according to MSW3)
 * 2) Dingo is a dog breed recognized by the Australian National Kennel Council in their Category 4 Hounds group
 * 3) Refer Taxonomy section; in MSW3 Wozencraft classified both familiaris and dingo under a "domestic dog" clade in contrast with the wild wolf clade
 * 4) The breed box has been modified to show the trinomial name as Canis lupus dingo, which also includes the New Guinea singing dog
 * 5) The range map that is removed with the subspecies box appears further in the article under Economic

I understand that this is unusual, but we are dealing with an unusual case. Happy to discuss further.  William Harris talk  06:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)


 * According to MSW3 Canis lupus dingo is the subspecies. Dingo is the common name for the subspecies and is used for article title. This is how all subspecies with suitable common names on Ingenpedia are handled.
 * Such a major change that treats the Dingo uniquely needs consensus and shouldn't be made without discussion.
 * So I will follow the spirit of IN:BRD and make the second step.  Jts1882 &#124; talk 08:04, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * "...Dingo is the common name for the subspecies..." - citation requested.  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 08:09, 27 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello Jts, you appear to have missed my request above - which expert IN:RELIABLE source has stated that the name Dingo (a canine native to Australia) is the common name (IN:COMMONAME) for Canis lupus dingo (a taxonomic classification that includes the Australian dingo, New Guinea singing dog, some dogs from Borneo, and extinct specimens found in Java and southern India)?  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 08:37, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, MSW3 is the obvious one and places the dingo as a subspecies of wolf. The discussion uses the common name dingo for this subspecies. Jackson et al (2017,2019) also recognise the status quo of the dingo as a subspecies (either of dog or wolf). They have proposed a change and no separate taxonomic status for the dingo, but this doesn't seem to have been accepted. Various other proposals for taxnomic change exist, including extending the subspecies to include other free-ranging dogs or the same at species level, but there seems no consensus. Until there is, we should follow MSW3, something you have repeatedly advocated.   Jts1882 &#124; talk 09:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)


 * As interesting as this digression above is, you have not satisfied my request. That is because such a search would be futile. On page 576 of MSW3, Wozencraft gives a common name for Canis lupus dingo, as he does for Canis lupus familiaris - it is "domestic dog".  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 10:05, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I have answered your question. You are proposing the change so you need to make the case. You are questioning whether the animal with the scientific name with epitaph dingo is the animal witht the common name dingo. Given that the former was named after the latter, the burden is on you to provide reliable secondary sources that this is no longer accepted in the scientific community at large.  Jts1882 &#124; talk
 * We are not going to agree and this really needs further input to get consensus for or against the change you propose.  Jts1882 &#124; talk 11:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. I am the one who opened this thread for discussion, not you. You chose to revert my edit, so you need to explain for what reason you did that. You appear to be disregarding what is before your own eyes on page 576 of MSW3, and this looks very much a case of I IN:JUSTDONTLIKEIT.  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 11:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * MSW3 also says "includes the domestic dog as a subspecies, with the dingo provisionally separate" after listing the dingo subspecies separately form the familiaris subspecies. Thus he is explictly using C. l. dingo for the dingo even if it is a also a form of domestic dog. It is a dingo and a domestic dog, not a domestic dog instead of dingo.
 * I suggest you read IN:BRD about the onus being on the editor making the change to gain consensus after the bold change is challenged and reverted. What is the secondary source for your revised definition of dingo being widely accepted? Also, given the tone of your last edit, you might want to check out IN:AGF.  Jts1882 &#124; talk 11:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Jts is correct in that it's the person making the original change that needs to prove their case. I also oppose the use of the breed box. These are not animals whose form and behavior has taken shape through selective breeding by humans, the purpose and intent of the breed box. It seems to me that the eternally unsettled taxonomy may always result in an imperfect fit, but these are not domestic animals, and should not use a domestic animal infobox. oknazevad (talk) 15:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * JTS you appear not to have noticed that the subspecies was still given as Canis lupus dingo in the box - it was never changed to familiaris.
 * O, it is recognised as a breed by the Australian National Kennel Council, and this article is badged under WikiProject Dogs. This Project gives no purpose for its breedbox - as opposed to your opinion above - and states that "Each dog breed article should use Infobox dog breed/various arguments". The ANKC is included in that box, and this is a dog breed article - despite that it is not familiaris. Your comment that "these are not domestic animals" conflicts with the MSW 2005 classification of C.l. dingo and C.l. familiaris both under the "Domestic dog" clade - that is what Wozencraft actually wrote!
 * Once again, the Australian dingo is not the subspecies Canis lupus dingo, it is only one of its members and therefore the subspecies box is not appropriate to be included in this article. However, I shall leave this fact to rest as it is going nowhere here, for now.  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 03:25, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Canis lupus dingo into Dingo. I think that the content in the Canis lupus dingo could be put into the Dingo article as its a synonym and we do not have seprate articles on other animals with synonyms 🌸 1.Ayana 🌸 (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was KEEP. William Harris (talk) 09:14, 11 October 2020 (UTC)